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Author Topic: trinity questions  (Read 1210 times)
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joyful
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« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2009, 10:24 »

Thank you Dreese and Ronald.
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RRD
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« Reply #16 on: Jun 05, 2009, 09:15 »

Why did John write that ... without Jesus Christ absolutely NOTHING was created?

panta di autou egeneto kai chwris autou
ALL (THINGS) THROUGH HIM CAME TO BE, AND APART FROM HIM
3956 1223 0846_3 1096 2532 5565 0846_3
egeneto oude hen
CAME TO BE NOT BUT ONE (THING).
1096 3761 1520
ho gegonen
WHICH HAS COME TO BE
3739 1096
Westcott & Hort Interlinear

Actually, what John said was that without him not one was created. The word "one" is in Greek neuter form -- hen -- of the word "heis"; and "all" -- Greek, panta  -- is a form of the Greek "pas". (The words "things" and "thing" are added by the translators.)

Another form of the Greek word "pas" is used in Romans 8:22: "For we know that all [pasa] creation groans and travails in pain together until now." The "all creation" that is being referred to in Romans 8:22 is not the angels, the stars, the sun, the moon, etc., but rather the world of mankind that has been subjected to vanity (Romans 8:20) due to Adam's sin. (Romans 5:12-19) Thus, absolutely "all creation" in the universe is not included in "all creation", neither in Romans 8:20, nor in what is said in John 1:3. Indeed, if one does a study of the usage of all forms of the word "pas" in the New Testament, one will see that this word rarely means absolutely everything in the universe, but that it is always understood in the context as well common evidence. John 1:10 indicates that in John 1:3, the all that is being referred to the world of mankind, as it is in Romans 8:22.  The only true God (John 17:1,3) is the Creator (Mark 10:6; 13:19; ); the prehuman Jesus is the instrument -- the agent -- that the Creator used to bring into being the creation that is being spoken of.

The Greek word "hen" refers to "the beginning" spoken of in John 1:1, which is the beginning, not of the universe, but of the world (kosmos spoken of in John 1:10), the six days of creation of the land (earth) and the sky (heavens) and the things in them as seen from the surface of the planet. (Genesis 1:1,3-31; Exodus 20:11; 31:17)

The Greek "hen" -- one --  is a neuter adjective and probably refers to the Greek noun plasma or poiema, that is, of the things formed.

The Greek word "panta" -- all -- always looks to the context and common evidence for what is included or excluded. The all being referred to is that which is spoken of as "the beginning",  all pertaining to the six days of creation.

The beginning in John 1:1 is the same "beginning" that is spoken of in Genesis 1:1. That "beginning" is shown by Exodus 20:11 and Exodus 31:17 to be the entire "six days" that are spoken of in Genesis 1:3-31. (This "beginning" then is after Yahweh had created the universe.) The "beginning" is not in reference to the "beginning" of the material universe, and not even the planet earth itself. We need to realize that the word "earth" has more than one meaning in the scriptures, and also that the word heaven(s) has more than one meaning. The heavens where God and the angels live (1 Kings 8:30,39; 2 Chronicles 20:6; Psalm 11:4; Matthew 5:16,45,48; 6:1,9; 18:10; 22:30; 24:36; Mark 12:25; 13:32; ) already existed before that first day, but the heavens -- the sky -- above the dry land and the things and living creatures related to that "heavens" did not begin to exist until the second "day". (Genesis 1:6-8) Before the creative acts of 'day one' began, the planet earth already "was" (Genesis 1:2), but the "earth" -- the dry land -- upon that planet, and the things included upon that earth, did not begin to appear until the third day. (Genesis 1:9-13) It is the "heavens and earth" that are described as being created during the six days that is the "beginning" that is spoken of in Genesis 1:1, and also in John 1:1.

When speaking of creation, what does the word the "beginning" usually refer to in the New Testament? Matthew 19:4; Mark 10:6 refer to "the beginning" in reference to creation of the man and woman, which took place on the sixth day of creation as related in Genesis 1:26-31. In Matthew 19:8 "the beginning" refers to the original marriage arrangement as provided by God after creating Eve, which was also part of the sixth day of creation. Matthew 24:21 and Mark 13:19 refer to the beginning of the world (kosmos); this world is described in John 1:10 as the world into which the Word came, but which world did not recognize the Word in their midst. The Greek word "kosmos" as used in the Bible, refers to the the world existing upon the planet earth; it does not refer to the entire universe. Thus, it is speaking of the world of mankind, not the entire material universe, nor of the angels. This is the "world" that the Word came into, and that did not recognize him. (John 1:10) Thus, it can be seen that the NT writers in connection with "the beginning" of creation understood that this beginning was in reference to things upon the planet earth, not to the entire universe itself.

Please note that the 'creation' spoken of in Colossians 1:15,16 includes the living creation both in heaven and earth, while the beginning spoken of in John 1:1 and the creation spoken of in John 1:3,10 refers to the world of mankind, the creation that has been subjected to vanity, futility, because of Adam's sin. (Romans 8:20)
« Last Edit: Jun 06, 2009, 10:11 by RRD » Logged

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