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[1997]

What did Jesus mean when he said:

Joh 17:11,12  "I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.  "While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.


Keeping in mind that the name "Jesus" means Jah Saves or Jehovah is Salvation and also that Jesus is not his Father, he is not equal to his Father.  Yet, he said the above. What did he mean by these words?  Keeping in mind that the names in Bible have meaning.

[dreese]

Hi 1997,

In this prayer, Jesus speaks very frankly about the task that God has laid on his Son, saving the world and sanctifying the Name of God.

Jews to this day would recognize this prayer as the requirements that fall to the one chosen to be the Messiah.

In the prayer- Ani Ma'amin the lyrics go:
'I believe with a perfect faith
In the coming of the Messiah, I believe

In the kaddish prayer for mourners:
Glorified and sanctified, lauded and praised, acclaimed and honored, extolled and exalted may the Holy One be

In the Oseh Shalom:
May the One Who makes peace in the heavens
Bring peace to us

Jesus knew that it fell to him to bring all of these prayerful promises to fulfillment for his Father, him and no one else.

dreese

What did Jesus mean when he said:

Joh 17:11,12  "I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.  "While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.


Keeping in mind that the name "Jesus" means Jah Saves or Jehovah is Salvation and also that Jesus is not his Father, he is not equal to his Father.  Yet, he said the above. What did he mean by these words?  Keeping in mind that the names in Bible have meaning.

[1997]

Hi Dreese,

I appreciate your reply but, brother, it does not address the question.

Jesus said that Jehovah had given him, Jesus, his name. We all agree that Jesus and Jehovah are not equal and that they're not a part of trinitarian god. That is a given. Yet, Jesus, God's Son did say this. What did he mean by it?

I appreciate the Jewish prayer or lyrics but it does not address the question.

With love,
1997

[dreese]

1997,

Let me try again. In Jewish Messianic theology, the Savior of the world is one who in every respect acts and functions as God would were he to come into this world. See the Dead Sea Scrolls 11Q13.  A Divine Being possesses all of the powers normally associated with God- miracles, resurrections, giving forgivnesss of sins, atonement.  God grants this Agent  his powers.  This is very similar to what John records in his Gospel account in chapter 5, God "grants' to Jesus his powers..  John also describes God and Jesus inhabiting each other, John 17.  Jesus in a very real sense carries his Father within him, possibly as the Memra or Schekinah or some other supernatural way.

The accounts of God dwelling with Moses and speaking as though He is really in a certain place give us some clue of how a Jew would be thinking when Jesus spoke the way he did.  Christians experience a 'indwelling' of the Divine also, maybe we can relate to what Jesus is saying by our own experience.

Hope that helps, if not let me know.

dreese

Hi Dreese,

I appreciate your reply but, brother, it does not address the question.

Jesus said that Jehovah had given him, Jesus, his name. We all agree that Jesus and Jehovah are not equal and that they're not a part of trinitarian god. That is a given. Yet, Jesus, God's Son did say this. What did he mean by it?

I appreciate the Jewish prayer or lyrics but it does not address the question.

With love,
1997

[RRD]

What did Jesus mean when he said:

Joh 17:11,12  "I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.  "While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.


Keeping in mind that the name "Jesus" means Jah Saves or Jehovah is Salvation and also that Jesus is not his Father, he is not equal to his Father.  Yet, he said the above. What did he mean by these words?  Keeping in mind that the names in Bible have meaning.

1997,

I did a study on this question several years ago, and, at present, my desktop is not working. I am sure that on the desktop hard drive I have the study I did at that time, but I do not have access to it. Yahweh willing, once I am able to locate the work I did on this before, I will post it here.

The World English reads this way:

John 17:11
    I am no more in the world, and these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them through your name which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are.

John 17:12
    While I was with them in the world, I kept them in your name. Those whom you have given me I have kept. None of them is lost, except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

Without doing the research all over at again, if I remember correctly, this is one of those scriptures that has variant readings in the Greek. The reading of the World English translation seems to make greater sense.

Nevertheless, in the Old Testament, Yahweh speaks of Israel and the temple as being called by his name, in effect, that Yahweh had placed His name upon, or given his name to, Israel and the temple.
http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?new=1&word=%22called+by+my+name%22&section=0&version=web&showtools=1&language=en
http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?new=1&word=%22name+on%22&section=0&version=web&showtools=1&language=en

Likewise, with Jesus, Yahweh has put His name on Jesus, in effect, giving His name to His son.

I hope this helps.

Christian love,
Ronald