next »

[RRD]

Genesis 1:26 - God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the sky, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
Genesis 1:27 - God created man in his own image. In God's image he created him; male and female he created them.

The book Jehovah of the Watchtower (by Walter Martin and Norman Klann, 1981 edition), makes the claim:

In Genesis 1:26 [KJV], Jehovah is speaking of creation, and He speaks in the plural number, "Let us create man in our image after our likeness." Now it is obvious that God would not create man in His image and the angels' images if He were talking to them, so He must have been addressing someone else, and who, but His Son and the Holy Spirit who are equal in substance, could He address in such familiar terms?

Many other trinitarians make similar statements. Notice, however, that it is being assumed that Jehovah could only be addressing someone who was co-equal to Jehovah. Trinitarians, especially, seem to be fond of making an assumption into the positive by using words such as 'clearly' and 'obviously', when what they are assuming is not at all clear or obvious from the scripture being referred to.

Martin and Klann, however, are trinitarians, and they simply assume that the trinity is true, and thus see trinity in scriptures where there is actually nothing in the scripture at all about a trinity. Indeed, what is truly obvious in reading Genesis 1:26,27 is that there is absolutely nothing at all in these verses about three persons in one God. The idea has to be added to and read into the verses.

The Son is not directly spoken of here. However, from other scriptures, we can ascertain that Jehovah was indeed speaking to His Son as the pre-human Logos, for the God and Father of Jesus created the world of mankind through the Logos. (John 1:3) Of course, since the Logos was the firstborn creature (Colossians 1:15), the Logos was created before the world of mankind in the image of the Creator. -- John 17:1,3,5.
http://reslight.net/john1.html
http://reslight.net/col1-16.html

There is nothing in the verses that necessitates adding to the verses that the Logos had to be equal to God in order for God to address him with the term "Let us".

For more, see:
http://godandson.reslight.net/gen-1-28.html

Christian Love,
Ronald

[ppcm]

Dear Mr. Day,
 Thank you for your labors.
I'm sorry to say that I don't know what to say to people when they come across with such things.  But your works help me.  At least I can pass along your commentaries.
So I have a statement I would like to hear your response to.  That is, some say 'it is implied in the Bible'.

God bless,
PPCM

[king wei]

thanks for the works...but wat is actually pre-human logos?...does it means that jesus is in spirit form and with God since the begining before he was borned to the world?

does it mean that jesus's spirit was created before adam?

[freyd]

I'm sorry to say that I don't know what to say to people when they come across with such things.

Well, I do. The trinity is a denial of the truth and a denial that Christ came in the flesh


2 John 1:6-8 (NIV)
And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully.

[dreese]

The Trinity is all based on suppositions about substance and essence that were theorized by Plato and Aristotle.
The Christian Bishops from Asia Minor who were schooled in these Hellenistic ideas brought them into the Christian Faith in the post-Apostolic era.  They then went back into the Bible and began to read into Scriptures these notions of multiple persons within one single substance.

Historical Revisionism.  It got so bad and so stupid and desperate that Christian Scholars even tried to say that the plural word 'elohim' meant plural persons in one God/Substance.

Of course they don't ask the Jews what they believe about these passages.  Most often the Jews are dismissed as Christ deniers in an effort to not have to face the hard truth that Deut.6:4 declares God to be 1 Person 1 Being.  Jesus being a good Jew declared this Truth himself, Mark 12:29.  He knew and believed.

You can see faces in clouds if you have the imagination, people can make up anything .  Have these trinitarians, if they can be honest with you, state what a Jew believes about Deut.6:4. Most will run around like a cat getting a bath, but a few will actually state the truth- God revealed himself to the Jews as 1 Person 1 Being.

In Christ

dreese

[ppcm]

            Hi all,

  dreese,  Thanks, I'll add that one to my lists.  :)

....can/will someone tackle answering king wei 's questions now?  ;D

God bless,
PPCM

[RRD]

thanks for the works...but wat is actually pre-human logos?...does it means that jesus is in spirit form and with God since the begining before he was borned to the world?

Yes. Jesus had the glory of a celestial, spiritual body when he was with his God and Father before the world of mankind was made. (John 17:1,3,5; 1 Corinthians 15:40)

does it mean that jesus's spirit was created before adam?

Jesus was created as a spirit being -- the firstborn creature (Colossians 1:15) -- before Adam, and before the angels.