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Author Topic: John 08:58 - "I am" - Eternal?  (Read 979 times)
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RRD
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« on: Jan 01, 2008, 05:03 »

The claim is often made by trinitarians and some others that "I am" in John 8:58 and some other verses means that Jesus is eternal without beginning.
It  is  an  assumption  that  Jesus  was  here  stating  that  he  is eternal  "without  beginning".  The  thought  of  "without  beginning" has  to  actually  be  added  to  and  read  into  what  Jesus  said.

Most  literally,  EGO EIMI  means  "I  am"  --  present  tense,  and  that  it  is how  it  appears  in  most  translations.  However,  Jesus  is  speaking of  his  existence  in  the  past, not  just  the  present.  In the Koine Greek, the  present tense  is often used  in the context of the past is often used  to  denote a  past continuity.  Many  wish  this  to  be  translated  as "I  AM"  in  order  to  connect  it  with  "I  AM"  --  Ehyeh  --   of  Exodus 3:14,  or  with  certain  scriptures  in  Isaiah,  such  as  Isaiah  41:4 and  Isaiah  43:10,  with  the  thought  that  this  phrase  means  without beginning or without  end.*  "I  am"  however,  is  simply  present tense,  and  simply  states  what  is  now,  and  in  itself  states nothing  about  past  and  future.

However,  the  present  tense, when used in a past tense situation, as it is used in John 8:58, expresses  an  action  begun  in  the  past  and  continued, sometimes even to the present. Indeed, this usage in John 8:58 is the only place in the Bible that I know where there are those who insist that this usage in John 8:58, so as to have the present tense actually rendered in the present tense, and thus claim that Jesus was claiming to be eternal, without beginning, without end, etc. And the only reason for doing this in John 8:58 is to satisfy a doctrine that has to be added to and read into the scriptures. Thus, some trinitarians especially, would like the past tense usage of a the present tense in this verse to mean their idea of eternal. In reality, what happens is that trinitarian is using John 8:58 as proof that Jesus always existed by using circular reasoning: Since we believe that Jesus has always existed, then this usage in John 8:58 means that Jesus always existed, and thus since we believe that it means that Jesus always existed, then it is proof that Jesus always existed.

In  view  of  the  context  wherein  Jesus  was  being  asked  how  old  he was,  this  can  be  expressed  in  English  as  "I  have  been,"  but probably  even  better  "I  have  been  being"  or  "I  have  been existing"  since  it  is  existence  that  is  being  spoken  of  in context,  thus  "I  have  been  existing  before  Abraham  was".  Many translations  do  render  ego  eimi  here  as  "I  was"  or  "I  existed", but  this  causes  the  verb  to  loose  the  past  continuity, although  they  can  be  used  since  it  is  self-evident  that  he  was still  in  existence  when  he  spoke  the  words.   "Have  been"  in English  denotes  "present  perfect",  while  "have  been  being/existing"  denotes  "continuous  perfect".  But  it  is  the  continuous element  that  many  of  our  trinitarian  neighbors  point  to,  and  thus read  into  this  continuous  past  the  thought  of  eternal  past, although  past-present  continuity  in  itself  does  not  necessarily, and  very  rarely  ever  does,  mean  continous  past  eternity.  It simply  denotes  that  when  something  or  someone  had  begun  activity or  existence,  that  it/he  has  continued  to  express/have such activity/existence.

Jesus,  of  course,  was  not  discussing  his  name in John 8:58,  but  rather  his age.  If  Jesus  was  declaring  that  he  was  Ehyeh,  as  God  does  in Exodus  3:14,  then  it  would  have  had  to  been  in  reference  to  the name,  for  that  is  how  it  is  expressed  in  Exodus  3:14.
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*I  have  discussed  the  meaning  of  "Ehyeh"  in:
http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=253
and
http://name.reslight.net/dn.html

Christian  love,
Ronald
Updated: September 20, 2008
« Last Edit: Jul 09, 2009, 10:25 by RRD » Logged

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