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[HOMEPAGE] ["Jesus is Not Yahweh" Links]

"Incomprehensible" as an Alleged Incommunicable Attribute

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Scriptures supposed to support the trinity:
Father: Matthew 11:27
Son: Matthew 11:27; Ephesians 3:8; Ephesians 3:19
Spirit: Isaiah 40:12-14

According to our trinitarian neighbors, Jesus is incomprehensible as God Almighty is incomprehensible, and thus, since they claim that this attribute of incomprehensibility is an incommunicable attribute, this proves that Jesus is Jehovah (Yahweh). They claim that Jesus cannot be completely known by a finite mind because He is "infinite". They do not mean mean that He is unknowable because they do agree that believers know Christ (John 17:3; 1 John 5:20). It is their claim that this means that man’s finite mind cannot fully know Christ; that man’s finite mind can know absolute truth about the "infinite" Christ, but it cannot know all the truth.

We do not doubt that the one true God, Yahweh, is incomprehensible -- that there are things about him that we as humans simply are incapable of understanding. We agree that our ability to "know" both Jesus and the God of Jesus is limited to what has been revealed through the holy spirit. Additionally, it is true that there are things about the angels that we do not fully comprehend. Yet we can be sure that the angels who always behold the face of Yahweh comprehend more about God than we humans do. The nature of the universe is also incomprehensible to us. Yet there are those who understand more about the mysteries of the universe than others. It should be apparent that just because something is incomprehensible to us as humans does not mean that which is incomprehensible is actually the Supreme Being. It is also true that many things that are incomprehensible to the fallen man who is carnally minded can be comprehended by others who walk by the spirit. The world, still worshiping the god of this world, is blinded to the Gospel truth, thus to them the true Gospel is incomprehensible(1 Corinthians 1:21; 2:7-11,14,15); yet to those whose eyes have been opened, the Gospel message becomes clearer and clearer. This does not mean that we comprehend every thing about spirit beings, whether infinite or not infinite.

Matthew 11:27: "All things have been delivered to me by my Father. No one knows the Son, except the Father; neither does anyone know the Father, except the Son, and he to whoever the Son wants to reveal him."

The thought is often promoted by some trinitarians that this verse shows that only the Son knows the Father. It is further reasoned from this that since only the Son knows the Father, then the Son must be God. In reality, this is not at all what Jesus was saying. He does not say that only the Son knows the Father, for he adds "and he to whoever the Sons wants to reveal him." Thus all the true disciples of Jesus also know the Father, even as they know the Son. It should be apparent that in whatever way Jesus knows the Father, so Jesus reveals such to whoever he wills. Thus whatever Jesus means by his knowing the Father in this scripture is not something incomprehensible to his followers.

This scripture is also often quoted as proof that Jesus is omniscient, knowing everything the father knows. In reality there is nothing here says that Jesus knows everything that the Father knows; such an idea has to be read into what Jesus said. Nevertheless, if one wants to read such an idea into the what Jesus said, then it would also include "whoever the Son wants to reveal him." Thus "whoever the Son wants to reveal" the Father to would also know everything the Father and the Son knows and therefore must be God, at least if one wants to read into this that the Son knows everything that the Father knows.

Of course, all who will live eternally must come to know both the Father, the only true God, and his Son, whom he sent forth. This does not mean that we have all the knowledge that God or the Son has, or that we understand absolutely everything about the Father or His Son. -- John 17:1,3.

We know that Jesus doesn't know everything the Father knows from other scriptures. This will be discussed more in the section on omniscience. Of course, we realize that trinitarians deny the import of the scriptures by saying that they only apply to his humanity, but that doesn't make much sense either in context, for the scriptures used to supposedly prove he knows all were also stated while Jesus is in his humanity. We know the old addage: a lie begets more lies. As a kid is questioned concerning his lie, he has to come up with more lies to cover up his original lie. Likewise, having added one thought to the scriptures, the trinitarian adds even more to the scriptures, claiming that Jesus could choose to use his supposed omniscience or not use it, and thus some of them allege that he chose not to use his omniscience in those scriptures that show that Jesus did not know certain things that the father knew. -- Matthew 4:1; 13:32; 26:39; Luke 8:45; John 12:49; Revelation 1:1.

The scripture also says that all things have been delivered to the Son. This would not be true if Jesus is God Almighty, for he would have always had "all things" from eternity past, and would not have needed anything be delivered to him. Nor does the expression "all things" mean that God delivered to Jesus the very being of Yahweh himself, or that Jesus was given any of the true incommunicable attributes of Yahweh. The Greek translated "all things" is "panta" which always looks to the context for what should be included or excluded in the "all" being spoken of. The "all" being spoken of are the things that Jesus had received of God in order to make the Father known to his disciples. -- John 14:10; 17:8,14.

Ephesians 3:8: "To me, the very least of all saints, was this grace given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ." Paul here speaks of the "unsearchable riches" of Christ, and the claim is made that this is proof that Jesus shares this as an incommunicable attribute of God. If the thought is that we as humans cannot search for the riches of Christ, then we submit that neither can we as humans search the riches of angels. However, the context shows that this is not the thought that Paul had in mind, for he says that it was given to him to preach these "unsearchable riches" to the Gentiles (the nations). If these unsearchable riches meant that Paul could not search these riches, then how could he preach these riches to the Gentiles?

Paul had just stated that "by revelation the mystery was made known to me, as I wrote before in few words, whereby, when you read, you can perceive my understanding in the mystery of Christ; which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit." (Ephesians 3:3-5) Evidently what he was preaching to the Gentiles was that which is a mystery to the sons of men, but had been made known to him, and it is this mystery of Christ that he refers to as the "unsearchable riches" of Christ in verse 18.

In Ephesians 3:9,10 Paul says the purpose of his preaching was "to make all men see what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things through Jesus Christ; to the intent that now through the assembly the manifold wisdom of God might be made known to the principalities and the powers in the heavenly places." Eventually all men will be enlightened concerning the secret that is now still hidden in God from most of the world blinded by Satan. (2 Corinthians 4:4; Revelation 12:9) Paul's preaching in the first century was only a start of that enlightenment -- for only a few are now being enlightened, but the words that he wrote will serve to enlighten all men in the age to come. Yet the preaching of Paul in the first century did cause the believer to understand the terms of becoming of the church through which the manifold wisdom of God is made now made known to the powers in the heavenly places.

But what is meant by the term "unsearchable", if it does not mean "incomprehensible"? We might note some of the other renderings: "I was chosen for this special joy of telling the Gentiles about the endless treasures available to them in Christ." (New Living Translation)"this grace was given to me to bring to the Gentiles the news of the boundless riches of Christ." (New Revised Standard Version) "God gave me this privilege of taking to the Gentiles the Good News about the infinite riches of Christ." (Good News Translation) "God showed me his kindness by allowing me to spread the Good News of the immeasurable wealth of Christ to people who are not Jewish." (God's Word Translation) It should become apparent that this has nothing to do with "incomprehensible", but rather with the unlimited supply of riches of Christ, which riches, of course, have been given to Jesus by the source of riches. -- 1 Corinthians 1:30; 8:6; 2 Corinthians 5:18; Philippians 11:1; Titus 3:6; James 1:17.

Ephesians 3:19: "and to know Christ's love which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled to all the fullness of God." Paul writes here of Christ's love which surpasses knowledge, and it is offered as proof that Jesus has an alleged incommunicable attribute of God, and that this therefore proves that Jesus is God Almighty. While we have found this scripture listed as proof that Jesus is incomprehensible, we could not find any trinitarian author who gives any explanation of how this is supposed to prove that Jesus has this supposed incommunicable attribute of God. Evidently the thought is that since the love of Christ surpasses knowledge, that this somehow makes Christ incomprehensible in the same degree that God is incomprehensible, and therefore that Jesus is God. First of all, in context the scripture is not saying that one cannot know Christ's love, for that is the very thing Paul says that he prays (Ephesians 3:14) for the saints in Ephesus, that they might understand the heights and depths, length and breadth of God's manifold wisdom and to know Christ's love, thus this love is not unknowable. What Paul was saying is that this love excels -- surpasses -- the secret knowledge of the eternal purpose of which he had just spoken. (Ephesians 3:10,11) And even if Paul was saying that Christ's love was unknowable, incomprehensible, to us, this would not in any way mean that Jesus is Jehovah (Yahweh).

Isaiah 40:12-14: "Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out the sky with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance? Who has directed the Spirit of Yahweh, or being his counselor has taught him? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of justice, and taught him knowledge, and shown to him the way of understanding? Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are accounted as the small dust of the balance: Behold, he takes up the isles as a very little thing." This is another one of those scriptures that some trinitarians quote to support the trinity, but so far we have found no explanation as to how they think that this scripture is supposed to support the trinity. Evidently the idea is that the usage of phrase "spirit of Yahweh" is meant to show that God's spirit is a person, that this person of Yahweh is incomprehensible. Of course, such an idea has to be read into what is stated. The word "spirit" is used here in the sense of "mind" or "will". God's spirit is not a separate entity from himself, and thus the holy spirit does indeed have personality, that is, the personality of God whom this spirit belongs. This does not mean that God's spirit is a separate and distinct person of God.

Quoted in Romans 11:34, 1 Corinthians 2:16. The Hebrew here for "directed" is the same as in Isaiah 40:12 for "meted out"; thus the sense is, "Jehovah measures out heaven with His span"; but who can measure Him? that is, Who can search out His Spirit (mind) wherewith He searches out and accurately adjusts all things? MAURER rightly takes the Hebrew in the same sense as in Isaiah 40:12 (so Proverbs 16:2, 21:2), "weigh," "ponder." "Direct," as in English Version, answers, however, better to "taught" in the parallel clause.

Fausset, A. R., A.M. "Commentary on Isaiah 40". "Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible".
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/JamiesonFaussetBrown/jfb.cgi?book=isa&chapter=040.
1871.

Needless to say, there is nothing in any of these scriptures that even hints that Jesus possesses God's alleged "incommunicable" attribute of being incomprehensible.

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